So, I read in the paper the other day that there is this guy (I can’t remember his name) here to give talks for IV, and he is also taking questions on the quad…..oh…wait….i got a name floating to memory….Cliff? I think that sounds right…anyway….. I was thinking after reading this he either has to be funny like good ol’ preacher Dan or he knows his stuff because they wouldn’t have put him in the paper otherwise. This kinda bummed me out because I’m a fan of quad preaching and I hate to miss a good one. So as I was walking from my B&TW class in Lincoln to my MatSe class in ceramics I saw a crowd gathered…and like a moth to the flame I was sucked in. I didn’t make it to that MatSe class today, instead I got a little different perspective then my own on Free will. He wasn’t adamantly for free will, but he said some interesting things about it. Before I launch into a spiel about this I should fist define what we are talking about here.
While often the predestination debate centers around the question “why would God choose people to go to hell”, I wish to talk about the root of this question, and not the outcomes Ultimately that is a good question that has no good definitive answer. We will never know if God does in fact choose people to be drawn close to him and follow the teachings of Christ (and subsequently by the fact that he chooses those who follow him, he chooses those who don’t come to him and they go to hell) or if in fact we are drawn there by our own free will. This is essentially what all arguing around predestination vs. free will boils down too. The free will crowd will present evidence in the Bible to support themselves, and the predestination crowd (read typically people who refer to themselves as Calvinists) will point to other evidence in the Bible to support themselves. Now, we will never know which one is right, there is perfectly good contextual evidence for both points of view, and I think God is big enough to accommodate both. But that doesn’t stop people from getting freaked out because they think this is shattering to what they understand about scripture, and it doesn’t stop people from going around cock-sure they know that this is the way it is, and they aren’t afraid to tell you about it. There is a funny quote I got from John Wesley, the man who started a movement which is now known as the Methodist denomination. He says:
“But I know not how it is, that just the reverse is observed in every part of the Christian world. No writers upon earth appear more positive than those who write on this difficult subject. Nay, the same men, who, writing upon any other subject, are remarkably modest and humble, on this alone lay aside all self-distrust, And speak ex cathedr?aa infallible. This is peculiarly observable of almost all those who assert the absolute decrees. But surely it is possible to avoid this: Whatever we propose, may be proposed with modesty, and with deference to those wise and good men who are of a contrary opinion; and the rather, because so much has been said already, on every part of the question, so many volumes have been written, that it is scarcely possible to say anything which has not been said before. All I would offer at present, not to the lovers of contention, but to men of piety and candour, are a few short hints, which perhaps may cast some light on the text above recited.” Here is the link to the sermon where he says this, I especially like the first part.
It is important to acknowledge that for any good argument you must not just ignore the evidence against it. For a good argument you must acknowledge and address these issues, otherwise your point is is moot. I will actually be making a case for my opinion on these matters while acknowledging that there is no absolutely correct answer. To do this I will present some of the counter arguments to what I am saying and answer those as best as I can, but ultimately this is still just my opinion and therefore is not necessarily correct.
Now, I happen to agree with Wesley about a good number of the people I have meant on both sides of this debate, anyone that claims absolute knowledge in this arena is a fool, and should be treated as such, I saw one of these people on the quad questioning the Cliff. He was relentless with the “your not answering my question” and the preacher was all “I tried but your not satisfied with any of my answers, so let someone else ask a question.” The funny thing is that I am fairly certain that guy was Christian too, but instead of letting someone work at taking away peoples excuses and presenting a fair account of Christianity as he believes it he only was muddying the waters of doubt and uncertainty for people by constantly pushing his agenda. I’m glad the Calvinist I’m friends with don’t do that….it would piss me off pretty quick.
This is how I see things. God does CHOOSE some people. You cannot deny this. If God did not specifically choose Saul, he would have continued persecuting Christians, and this cannot be denied. God choose Moses, Abraham, the old testament prophets, and the disciples. But, all these people are people advancing Gods words in a very specific way. I believe that God does choose some people as he sees fit for the specific purpose of maximizing the advancement of his Kingdom on earth. I also believe that God calls all people who follow him to also spread the word of God. But I ask you, what if Saul said no, he would have been left blind and been largely ineffective at persecuting Christians, but the word would not have spread as it did to the Gentile nations. And any of us, regardless of how we arrive at the idea that Christianity is the way to go, at some point hears/sees/feels/understands that we should so something to minister to someone else. For most this happens more then once, but how many of us can say that though we were compelled to do witness or minister that we have always done it. I have ignored that once or twice, because sometimes it is awkward and we just don’t do it. Isn’t that our decision, don’t we have that ability to do the opposite of what God tells us. If we did not have the free will to choose God, then why are responsible for our sins? Why should any punishment be visited upon us when God never had it in his mind to elect us into the ranks of Christianity. If we did not have free will we would not be able to sin, because we would not be able to make decision without divine intervention…God would have to be playing a large game of chess where I had no decision making abilities and was moved about against my will and without my knowledge. I would say that that this shows that God chooses some, but some come to into Christianity of their own accord. He in his wisdom most often does choose people with the purpose of offering Christs forgiveness to people that would otherwise remain unreached. God has foreknowledge, so to speak, of all events, and later on I will address that, but I believe that does not mean that he chooses one person to minister to people and subsequently chooses by foreknowledge the people that the first person reaches. (How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood….say that and my last sentence four times fast). Let me make an illustration.
I have a guy, we’ll call him Xander…cuz I like that name, and a guy named Guido…cuz I also like this name. Now, say God knows if Xander will accept his message and knows when, but this is a moot point because for my story he will be chosen by God to do his work. Xander is a charismatic guy that people like to be around, and that people listen to and value his opinion. If he did not receive the grace of Christ till later in life he would miss opportunities to help other people struggling with their faith. So, God in his wisdom chooses to call Xander now instead of later, with one of those !BANG! type of unmistakable Paul goes blind experiences. Then he tells Xander to minister to people. Now we reach Guido. Because God Choose Xander early he is going to reach Guido. Now Guido is a friend of Xander’s and hears and chooses to receive the message of Christ because Xander presented it to him a new way. Now, I have set the stage, and I will refer to Guido and Xander as I continue through my thoughts on this.
It needs to be said that God sees all points in time as if they were one. He knows all mens hearts and all states that their hearts will ever be in. I urge people to read Wesley’s Sermon 58 which makes a wonderful analogy (though not quite complete) about the sun. He says that if I know that the sun is going to rise tomorrow and shine I am not by any action or inaction causing the sun to shine. Likewise, he makes the claim, that neither does God by his knowledge or our actions in the future cause them to happen. He knows our sin, but we don’t sin because he knows we will, he knows because we will sin. The same case that is used to say that God chooses all of us and we have no say in the matter, no free will, could easily be extrapolated to God causes us to sin. It doesn’t take a mental giant to make that leap. Now, I am saying that because he does not cause us to sin, as the Bible tells us, but allows it in the world, we have to be able to make a choice to move away from him, and subsequently the inverse must be true, that we at least in some limited fashion must have the choice to move toward him. Are friend Guido is a good example of some of this. If God knows that Guido will be reached by Xander, is he choosing Guido, or is he letting the cards fall where they may, but he happens to know where they are going to land. I know the sun analogy is not complete because we cannot directly effect the rising and setting of the sun, and God can, but it helps to bring to light my thoughts on this matter. Sometimes I know God chooses people. Sometimes I believe we can still answer his calling with NO. Right now, I could turn my back on God and say I don’t want to be in a church anymore, and I don’t care about Jesus. I’m not going to do that, but it is still possible. This is in light of the fact that I believe I serve a living God whom I have seen working through miracles around me and in my life, I could still turn my back and say “screw it.” The Bible says that this action is really really bad, but I have that choice. And this is why it is hard for me to believe that every single person comes to Christ through no choice of their own.
Alright, so my ranting and raving didn’t turn out exactly how I meant it to, and I have rambled on enough about this. But I will say that in some sense we are predestined to be servants of God. I believe he offers this opportunity to everyone in one manner or another, and some definitely choose to reject it, and that does not require God to harden their hearts. But some, he doesn’t exactly offer so much as tell, and some he drags kicking and screaming, but that is always for his glory more then our personal benefit. We will never know his exact will, and the matter of choice over free will will never be answered in this life. The people I am around acknowledge my opinion and respect it even when they disagree, and I believe that it is more important to accept that people have that right then argue or be upset that someone believes something different then us. Especially when the Bible is not completely clear on how God works in this area.
Sorry this was so long….and sorry I posted it when it was half finished….but I’m done for now.
