Comments on: Mono, Lent, and another test

By: Beyond_Eden

Beyond_Eden — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I agree with you about lent. It’s no one’s business if/what u give up. if they’re telling u you have to or you should, they’re being hypocritical. If they’re telling u what they’re giving up or doing or fasting, then they are nullifying their sacrifice by gaining pride from men. it says in Matthew 6:16-18 that if only ur father in heaven knows u are fasting u will recieve a large reward and it actually condemns SEVERAL times in the book of matthew people who are not humble. bragging about what u give up makes u akin to the pharisees whose good deeds were nullified by their boastful muddied hearts.

Bottom line, i agree no one should force you to give something up for lent, nor should it even be a topic of conversation in my opinion.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

What a sticky subject. I think it has more to do with what’s in one’s heart than just – always talking about it is unacceptable – . Were I to give something up for Lent or the 40DoPaF I’d want someone to be encouraging me along the way and I would do the same. Especially for the 40DoPaF since it is a community building effort. Anyway if its personal for some people then keeping it personal is cool. Everyone is different and its the heart that counts, not the letter.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Hehe. I thought I’d clarify as I’m not trying to flame You are right about people who brag about fasting, that they lose their reward. That’s what I was getting at anyway, the intent is key.

By: harambee78

harambee78 — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

So, what’s sillier: doing something just because it is tradition, or dismissing something just because it is tradition?

When something has been done for hundreds of years, it of course should be questioned periodically to test its authenticity. On the other hand, things don’t become a part of a centuries old tradition without real, hardcore value.

Tradition is nothing but democracy stretched through time. It allows the dead to have a vote – claiming that it isn’t just the current generation that counts, but those that have gone before it as well. So, when something is part of tradition and I can’t find value in it, chances are the problem is with me and not with millions of other Christians who just happen to be dead. That’s my take on it anyway.

By: BigCat

BigCat — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

See the thing is, I don’t dismiss this because it is a tradition, I’m dismissing it because it has never taken a serious meaning in my life, and I haven’t seen how it will. But I am open to gaining meaning at some point in my life because God can assign it meaning. But I don’t think dead people get a vote in my life. People that I never knew, people that I never had touch my life, and people that blindly follow the rules that an theo-aristocracy created for them when they never had a say in it. Authenticity in terms of tradition is a personal thing, not a coorperate one. I don’t question tradition so that other people can come beside me and join in by claiming that this is non-biblical and should be completely blown from the record books…I am no Luther, but I do need to decide if it is important for my life, and if God is working through this stuff.

Also, I don’t, in any way think that tradition is any more important than what an individual ascribes to it. This is because there are traditions that don’t have hardcore value that are given far to much importance, because a Pope somewhere down the line decided it was important. There is documented cases where many things were woven into the fabric of modern christianity just because it seemed like a good idea at the time. Christianity was never ment to be a static thing, locked in tradition. All my Catholic friends can disagree with me and that is fine, because for them tradition is important, they take solace in the thousands and millions of dead christians before them going through the same motions they are. I’m more of a person who wishes to blaze the new trail, not bogged down with a backpack full of traditions that don’t do anything but slow me down. Maybe it is a personal problem that I need to deal with, but the trend is to toss of the old, the extra-biblical and seek where the holy spirit is leading us, not the spirit of the dead gone before…that was their time, this is ours. That is my take on it…..also, please comment on my blog, not on LJ, just so I can have it for my personal records to look back on, and to back up when I want to save this stuff. Thanks for the input tho.

By: harambee78

harambee78 — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Sorry, one more thing. How do traditions gain personal value in our lives? Growing up, my parents made me go to church, though I probably wouldn’t have chosen to do that on my own. I didn’t understand why I had to do it. But eventually, after doing it over and over again and trying to understand why THEY thought it was so important, it began to be important to me as well. The same thing with communion and singing worship songs. There are songs I’ve had to sing a dozen times before it had any real meaning to me.

The point? Appreciating any tradition begins with blind obedience. You have to engage tradition before it will gain any meaning to you. You have to fast through lent before you’ll have a personal stake in it and be able to learn from it.

By: BigCat

BigCat — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

So, while I would have to agree that something doesn’t gain significance without doing it first, I will say that fasting through lent growing up gave me no satisfaction and no signifance what-so-ever and I learned nothing except that I should discover my own way of doing things, but things can gain sigifcance if God gives them signifance. It’s more like you do something because God tells you to, versus someone else telling you too, which is exactly what you are doing by blindly following traditions.

Appreciating God to the fullest beings with blind obediance, but blind obediance to temples built by man only gives us stock in the things of man. If God assigns significance to something once it doesn’t not mean it will always be meaningful for another person.

Also, while you make a good point about growing up and not understanding things that your parents had you do, you are not taking into account the fact that as we grow up we don’t need to have our parents telling us what is best for us, after a certain point it is God’s job to do that….not the ancient Catholic church, not the modern church we attend, but God. I’m not saying that sometimes direction doesn’t come from God through the church, just that those things have to be examined for personal relavance…hence why this lent I will be giving something up, but more for the building campaign then the fact it is lent.

I ask myself questions like “what good is this going to do for me, for the people around me, the church or my spiritual life” then I pray about it, and see what comes of it. If God says, “hey you need to fast in the literal sense of the word, or just give something specific up (or fast from it)” then I do it as best I can. Or in the reference of our building campaign, I recognize the significance of cooperate prayer and fasting, so I see how it is going to be good for the people around me, and I acknowledge that I might get something from it too, so it is already in the “go for it category” then I pray about what God wants me to give up, and then away I go…I’m not doing just out of blind obedience of the leadership of my church, but because I believe in the vision of the leadership and means by which they plan to accomplish this. Anyway, that is long…but an interesting side note about my personality type (ENTP) is that we typically have a lot of trouble doing anything traditional, and will challenge any convention…that is my life..that is part of how I know I have and will be for the forseeable future and ENTP.

By: harambee78

harambee78 — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Valerie (the one from Chris and Dirk’s smallgroup) and I have decided that you need to read Chesterton’s Orthodoxy. I was going to be cute and post the Dewey Decimal numbers where you could find a copy in the university library, but I just checked and all five copies are checked out. 96 years old and people still can’t put that book down….I’d lend you my own, but the spine is held together with scotch tape and what may be very old gum. I bought it new about six years ago.

By: BigCat

BigCat — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I was planning on reading the book at some point because I know a bunch of people who really liked it, and Lauren borrowed it from Jeff not so long ago and really liked it. I might give it a shot after I finsh the 8 other books I have locked up in my queue at the moment….man it will be nice to graduate and finally get to read again.